In the old Roman Republic before the wars of Marius and Sulla it was considered sacrilege to put to death a Roman Citizen without trial. The Civil Wars changed that, and when one faction won it would publish lists of enemies who could be killed without trial or mercy if found within Roman jurisdiction. Most lists of proscription also carried rewards to those who found and executed the proscribed enemy of the people. Proscriptions also carried confiscation of property, and were used by Sulla to replenish the treasury.Cicero's last words are simply outstanding, as you would expect.
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Constitutionally the Congress is explicitly prohibited from Acts of Attainder, which is a form of Proscription adopted as an actual Act of Parliament still in theory allowable under English law, but not employed for a century or so. Under an attainder, a law is passed pronouncing a named individual or members of a particular organization or group, or possibly a named family, guilty of a capital crime and authorizing their execution without trial. No such act has been passed for more than two centuries.
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The obvious question for discussion is whether this activity – summary execution of citizens without trial – is permissible or desirable under Constitutional Government as part of the discretionary war powers of the President, and if so, do they apply within the United States as well as in foreign nations? It is not a simple question. What acts must a citizen perform to earn a place on the proscription list?
He followed this up with a long and very thoughtful amplification:
The USA Patriot Act, enacted in haste following 9/11, is proving to be an increasing threat to old established ways of Liberty. The Department of Homeland Security, formed in haste following 9/11, daily humiliates American citizens in ways that would have had their grandparents reaching for the tar and feathers.
Another question: if either of these American citizens had returned to the United States and come to Kennedy International where they presented their US passports at the entry booth, could they have been arrested? On what charge? Were there outstanding warrants? In the case of Samir Khan it is not clear what he could be charged with. He ran a blog, an Internet magazine – I do not know of any other involvement other than that he associated with Al Awaki who associated on line with Major Hassan. Perhaps either or both could be charged with conspiracy and with levying war against the US, but I don’t think that has been done. So: we establish that they could be killed out of hand while travelling from one place to another, neither carrying arms or engaged in any act of war, while in a foreign country: but could they have been shot down by a US Marshall while still in the part of the airport that is not yet in the United States? On international territory? Or after they stepped into the United States?
They can be killed but not arrested: it would take convening a grand jury or a warrant from a magistrate before they could be arrested at Kennedy?
I do not here seek to make life difficult for our military; but I do seek to ask questions. If American citizens can be put on a proscription list and those on that list can be killed on sight by launching high explosives as them, is it proper to ask the procedures required to get on that list?
It seems that the scumbag getting his dirt nap was, well, a scum bag. But I also have questions, about how this precedent will be used in 15 or 20 years. The history of the past decade is not encouraging.
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I have questions about how it will be used right now.
I'm not very smart --and I am sure someone much smarter than me has thought of this and rejected it-- but I keep wondering why these enemy combatants, who are American citizens, aren't charged with Treason? Wouldn't that alleviate the conundrum of arresting and charging the individual under the circumstances described, such as at the airport? Treason is the only crime specifically mentioned in the Constitution, and it's punishment is also specified. Either way, what we are seeing is the summary execution of an American citizen without a trial, or even presentation of evidence for that matter.
I agree with your concerns about what this precedent could morph into in the future.
People seem to grant extraordinary powers without thought that they are granting them to the POSITION, not the man in it. Many very patriotic people had no qualms about passing the PATRIOT Act when it was GWB asking to be allowed to wiretap terrorists. Hmmm, now that the .gov gets to wiretap terrorists, we have a precedent. All of a sudden, DHS is releasing documents that broaden the definition of 'terrorist' and those powers can apply to the people who supported the PATRIOT Act in the first place. With the Al Awlaki strike we have a precedent that allows the President to order military sanctions against American citizens. Its not too much of a stretch to change the geography and order sanctions against a person of similar actions in, say, Gulf Texas. When do we get to the point that Predator strikes are used instead of the US Marshals? Don't know. But when we do, we can feel secure in the knowledge that when we look back on the original authorization of power, we can always say, "But that wasn't what I wanted you to do with that!" Unfortunately, it will mostly be said in the Gulag, or in the strike zone. Be careful what you wish, you may regret it; careful what you wish, you just might get it.
Maintaining a watch on gov't excess is always part of a democracy, but this particular case doesn't seem to be breaking new ground.
If this policy was used to kill people inside the United States, I would be in agreement with you. But we've been arresting and using the court system on terrorists that were found here.
If you travel to a war zone, get trained by the enemy, and work to further the aims of that enemy, and the only practical way to put a stop to your actions is to use military force...
As Jay says, "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes."
chiefjaybob, your solution seems entirely correct. Trials in absentia for treason are not ideal, but at least require the Executive to justify their action.
Wolfman, well said.
ASM826, I'm not disputing that the scumbag in question was executed unjustly. But if this was the case, a trial in absentia should not have been difficult. Inconvenient, perhaps, but IMHO making things inconvenient for the government isn't a bug, it's a feature.
Once the trial is over and verdict rendered, I have no problem with loosing the dogs of war.
and not a peep from the lap dog main stream media. Had it been Bush...
Very good points one and all. I'm still trying to rectify this internally.
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