tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6322916946732811685.post1045424262195845530..comments2024-03-28T16:31:54.494-04:00Comments on Borepatch: The blindness of the educated classBorepatchhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05029434172945099693noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6322916946732811685.post-39639305310628785732016-11-23T13:42:27.856-05:002016-11-23T13:42:27.856-05:00Shorter Borepatch: Culture swamps race in determin...Shorter Borepatch: Culture swamps race in determining outcomes.Borepatchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05029434172945099693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6322916946732811685.post-72861307419178513112016-11-23T11:36:08.309-05:002016-11-23T11:36:08.309-05:00Borepatch
Granted, but I never said they were ...Borepatch<br /><br />Granted, but I never said they were 'nice'. I'd rather live next-door to a homicidal sociopath than have the slightest dealings with a malignant narcissist any day of the week. I suppose I was opining on the fact that they are actually 'worse' than you implied.<br /><br /><br />Minecraft<br /><br />I had to laugh. The divisions within those supposedly monolithic (as seen from outside them) races/cultures are often far more extreme and/or violent than any between races/cultures (call a Sami a Finn, or worse Swedish, or a Yorkshireman a Cumbrian, or worse a Lancastrian, and prepare for blood, and those are culturally restrained as compared to most). The shorthand of defining diverse, often antagonistic, groups as one is … well, simply an easy way of saying “whoever they are, they aren't us”, no?<br /><br /><br />Burt<br /><br />I empathise, but what you experienced is, unfortunately, 'normal'. You were the 'other', 'not one of us', no? I recently returned (to a country I haven't spent more than months in in 30+ years) and settled in rural Northern England (I'm a Reiver after all) and despite being definitively from the same 'race' and culture, and an almost identical sub-culture (from less than a hundred miles away), I have repeatedly been 'othered' here. (You know the type of area where you're an outsider even ten years later because everybody elses grandfather went to school with their grandfather). As someone who attended a score of schools, and who has never worked in one area/posting long enough to settle anywhere, as the perpetual outsider I've observed that, except for the rarest 'elites', if an outsider isn't available they target 'someone', anyone' (too fat, too thin, too clever, too stupid, red hair, blonde, …). You were just 'easy', 'obvious' and available (and because you were so easily identifiable as such you probably experienced more, and worse, than most). It wasn't 'personal' it's just 'what they do'.<br /><br />It doesn't say very nice things about us as a species I admit, nor is it anything but horrifying for the individual excluded, but it must have some benefit for 'the tribe' practising it.<br /><br /><br />And that's the point, we may like to pretend some moral superiority with an 'overarching' (national) culture superseding all others so as to cooperate, but those underlying tribal/familial preferences have always remained.<br /><br />Our (high trust) cultures have succeeded precisely because we were able to overcome (to some limited extent) the tribal/familial preference with an overarching (national) one. These 'elites' are so harmful, not because they enrich themselves or covet and hoard power, but because they are undermining the very fabric of what made our cultures superior. They have reverted, explicitly, to a 'look after us and screw the rest' mentality. (e.g. laws for the 'little people' specifically excluding 'them'?)<br /><br />Oh, and I console myself on past 'experiences' of othering by visiting them now decades later and seeing my 'tormentors', still members of the 'in' crowd, have been nowhere, done and achieved nothing. They were automatically 'accepted' so they had no need to seek and aspire (I, of course, do note gloat 'too openly' at the pot-bellies, debts, failures, etc. - well much anyway). Well, that and the fact that every one of the hated schools has either been torn down or converted into apartments of course, that helps too.Ablehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18109723804885979128noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6322916946732811685.post-42904473775746311092016-11-23T09:25:34.623-05:002016-11-23T09:25:34.623-05:00It isn't race or culture: it's unreasoning...It isn't race or culture: it's unreasoning, unjustified, blind hatred, and is almost always passed down from parent to child. Watch two kids playing, one X and one Y. They usually don't give a damn about one being X and one being Y. They get along fine. It's the *PARENTS* who poison those relationships.<br /><br />Someday, when I have the courage, I'll tell you what it was like to grow up in the late '50s and mid '60s in a small town in northern NJ where I was the only X in the school system (yes, from K thru at least 10), and everyone else - EVERYONE, including the teachers, administration and parents - was either Y or supported Y.<br /><br />Some of my experiences were horrifying examples of psychological terrorism conducted by the children, *condoned and approved* by the teachers and administrators (including a "career counselor" who told me that I should just give up and get a job digging ditches because "nobody will ever hire you - you'll never amount to anything" - THIS REALLY HAPPENED).<br /><br />Some people say that high school was one of the best times of their lives, and that they still have friends that they keep in touch with. In all seriousness, I'm happy for them: it's good to feel "connected" to others.<br /><br />For me: no such luck. High school was the absolute worst time in my life. I have *ZERO* friends that I kept in touch with because I had NONE. I have NEVER gone to a reunion. Wyy? Who would I "reunion" with?<br /><br />It wasn't culture. And it wasn't race. It was only because I was X and they were Y.<br /><br />Yes, it still hurts. But I forgave them a long time ago and, in truth, I put them out of my mind completely until I read the OP and some of the comments.<br /><br />Today, I have a reasonably wide circle of friends who respect me for who and what I am, and I respect them for who and what they are. We get together fairly often just because we like each others' company. And we kid around with each other, knowing that it's all based on the fact we like each other and know it's ok to kid around with each other.<br /><br />And none of us cares about X or Y - or any other such juvenile crap.Eaglehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14471264704254326723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6322916946732811685.post-67365390478900051892016-11-23T08:23:48.011-05:002016-11-23T08:23:48.011-05:00There is race, and there is culture. They both ex...There is race, and there is culture. They both exist, and they are interrelated. Here in the United States, race is a shorthand for culture, because the overwhelming majority if blacks (race) share a similar culture, one almost defined as being different from the majority white (race) culture. No race is monolithic, of course. See, for example, the left-right split in American whites. But even there, the two groups still share many cultural assumptions that are foreign to the majority of blacks.<br /><br />Then there are the Latinos, or whatever we're calling them this week. They are different races, sharing a predominant culture. The point is that they do not share our culture. And, if course, there are many different Latin-American societies, from high class (white) Mexicans to the indigenous Indian tribes which check are still fighting against the people invading their lands.<br /><br />In addition to race and culture, there are words. It's simply easier, especially in America, to talk about black, white, Latino, Asian, American Indian, other. Devolving into details of specific subcultures is a tedious, unnecessary waste of time. Thus, the 'conversations on race'.<br /><br />And if you don't believe that race exists, you have never seen people. To deny that human races exist is to deny the difference between a Watusi and a Finn. Just as well do deny the differences between a Dachshund and a Great Dane - after all, they are genetically indistinguishable, so they must be identical, no? <br /><br />And the language works that way - our not so distant ancestors talked about the English race, and the French race, and the German race, etc. Race is another word for culture and blood ties. McChuckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08192934741632433007noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6322916946732811685.post-55774440045491345012016-11-22T22:51:17.053-05:002016-11-22T22:51:17.053-05:00Able, great comment. However, I'd like to rep...Able, great comment. However, I'd like to reply to this:<br /><br /><i>I do think you're misinterpreting their 'motives' though. They aren't acting so “self-interested” because they are 'malignant', they are doing so because 'they actually believe' that they are 'right' to do so. They aren't psychopaths committing evil whilst knowing it is such and not caring, they're malignant narcissists who have persuaded (even to rewriting facts to fit the narrative) themselves (their entire upbringing within their sub-culture indoctrinates them from birth) so thoroughly that what they do is right, that they really do believe it. They don't enjoy feeling superior, they simply believe unquestionably that they 'are'.</i><br /><br />There is a psychic reward for doing what you believe is right, as you point out with the C.S. Lewis comment. The self-interested bit is being unwilling to give up that reward.<br /><br />Plus, they've been getting richer off of the policies that are immiserating the rest of the country. They feel smug while they act in their own self interest. Not nice.Borepatchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05029434172945099693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6322916946732811685.post-23487275788087607202016-11-22T21:34:16.182-05:002016-11-22T21:34:16.182-05:00You 'do' bring up such interesting topics,...You 'do' bring up such interesting topics, don't you?<br /><br />Hmm, as someone who has spent the majority of his life travelling to exotic locales (on HM's dime, well penny, so usually the grubbiest, most flea-bitten and violent – and usually acquiring scars or ballistic body-piercings along the way?) I have observed, and remain of the opinion, that it's 'both' race 'and' culture.<br /><br />But, what race, and what culture? Neither is ever a monolithic, perfectly identified and delineated structure. Go to Africa and even within (ostensibly) the same racial and cultural populations you will see significant variations in basic beliefs, 'industry', and even ethics and morals. The same can be seen also in my home Septic Isle with (regional, local and even familial) 'sub-cultures' actually defining behaviours more thoroughly than either race (which often decides the 'expression') or the wider culture (defining 'limits' of which 'some' may be common, since it is the commonalities that define the culture). (I've said it before, but I and mine share more 'basic' beliefs with your 'flyover' residents than with my own countries 'elites' despite our alleged common culture)<br /><br />And isn't that exactly what he has identified in the RPL and PPL discrepancies? Competing sub-cultures.<br /><br />I do think you're misinterpreting their 'motives' though. They aren't acting so “self-interested” because they are 'malignant', they are doing so because 'they actually believe' that they are 'right' to do so. They aren't psychopaths committing evil whilst knowing it is such and not caring, they're malignant narcissists who have persuaded (even to rewriting facts to fit the narrative) themselves (their entire upbringing within their sub-culture indoctrinates them from birth) so thoroughly that what they do is right, that they really do believe it. They don't enjoy feeling superior, they simply believe unquestionably that they 'are'.<br /><br />That in itself isn't fatal, look to the 'aristocratic' traditions of Victorian England with it's 'superior' yet moral and philanthropic 'paternalistic' feeling towards the 'lower sorts' and how it … well, 'worked' (and it's 'their' culture that gave us the modern world). The current fatality is due to the marriage of this superior 'Platonic Philosopher King' attitude with the (pretence, and it has never been anything else) of 'collectivism'. Whilst mercenary self-interest of a 'ruling class' is survivable the (communist/fascist) desire to own, control and micromanage 'every' aspect of those they deem 'lesser' is not.<br /><br />It's not that they're 'elitists', it's that they are left-wing elitists that is the issue – and no, they will never willingly give up what they believe is their birth-right. They are the personification of C. S. Lewis' tyranny.<br /><br />(and before anyone asks, I’m a small C conservative – go figure!)Ablehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18109723804885979128noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6322916946732811685.post-55707399093431648942016-11-22T18:36:16.106-05:002016-11-22T18:36:16.106-05:00No. It is about race. There are so many studies ...No. It is about race. There are so many studies on IQ, ethnic behavior, and historical precedent to show that.<br /><br />Culture is downstream from race. Race is not everything, but it is fundamental and non negotiable. WE must stop the lying.cecilhenryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06295507329028875050noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6322916946732811685.post-31048891641425242512016-11-22T14:47:58.875-05:002016-11-22T14:47:58.875-05:00From just that last paragraph quoted from Mr. Dann...From just that last paragraph quoted from Mr. Dannato, I'd conclude he's not just a but utopian, but full blown member of the elite classes he otherwise points out the stupidity of. Reading his original piece, that conclusion paragraph seems out of place. <br /><br />It is, indeed, about culture. Not just that one tiny island nation that gave us both Newton and Shakespeare, and almost subdued the world ("the sun never sets..."), but Western Europe in general. Contrary to what the intellectually blind class will tell you, all cultures are not the same and equally good. Some cultures clearly produce better results than others. <br /><br />I believe from the summaries I've seen that there's no such thing as "race" as a biological construct. That means only your culture, which is to say your behavior, which is in your power to change, holds you back. I'm also told only white people say that. <br /><br />SiGraybeardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00280583031339062059noreply@blogger.com