Tuesday, July 13, 2021

Clarification

I concur with the comments pointing out the senseless loss of American troops in Afghanistan. It went on and on. There were no goals. We accomplished nothing. I am not suggesting we should have stayed or even went there in the first place without a national declaration of war by Congress.

If we had been willing to declare war and prosecute that war, clearly defining what we were trying to achieve, it should have been over in the summer of 2002. 

I refer you to the wartime leadership exhibited by the Allies during WWII. There was no reason to think that Japan would ever surrender and yet we were on track to use as much force as necessary to achieve our stated goals. That was a war. As horrible and destructive as war is, once in it, the U.S. set about figuring out how to win.

I hope that clarification allows me to return to my point. The Afghani people that put their trust in us are going to die for it.


16 comments:

Toirdhealbheach Beucail said...

Agree, Borepatch. And I also agree that a great many number of people will now likely die based on how the US left. The Taliban, for all of their "new, kinder" moniker, are the same as they ever were.

If I had to make a prediction, this will effectively mark the end of the US involved in such foreign excursions, if for not other reason that they have given no foreign nationals any reason to trust them.

SgtBob said...

We beat Germany and Japan because we discovered we had to be as ruthless as they were. We developed and used ruthless weapons. Islamists and Communists are more ruthless than Fascists, Nazis or Japanese militarists.

libertyman said...

I am reading Jim Mattis' book Call Sign Chaos. An interesting read about how the politicians caused the deaths of our troops by their idiotic rules of engagement. They learned nothing from Vietnam.

McChuck said...

We should under no circumstances bring Afghanis back to the USA. They aren't us. They will never be us. They are the anti-us.

They made their choice, placed their bets, and the dice turned up snake eyes. Sucks to be them. At least the global price of heroin will go back up now that we'll stop paying farmers to grow opium.

lee n. field said...

Re the endless presence in Afganistan, maybe the point was to spend money.

ASM826 said...

Lee N.,

If so, it was a stunning success.

Bob said...

I think a big part of this was the government didn't know how else to respond to 9-11-2001 and picked this idiotic waste of American life and limb.

Al_Queda Training camps in Afghanistan? Really? Like obstacle courses can't be setup elsewhere? Anywhere? Like 9-11 type attacks can't be planned from anywhere on the globe?

A lot of this is on Bush. Maybe he really is an idiot (I'm not and have never been a democrat supporter).

Glen Filthie said...

Well judging by you lot - the rag heads won the psychological war, HAR HAR HAR!

Stop it, fellas. You dishonor the fallen, the squaddies, the victims and yourselves. Consider:

When the towers came down on 911, every turd world yodelling moslem mutt was dancing in glee and ululating about the victory against the American pig dogs, and how American blood would run in rivers, how they'd kill your sons and rape your women.

For the last 20 years, those guys have lived in caves. That means fleas, lice, and all the other good things that go with the outdoor life. Most of their top echelon leaders are dead. The ones left have nightmares about Predator drones. These guys - despite their rhetoric, will think long and hard about striking at America with impunity in such a way again.

Further - you guys built schools, hospitals, courthouses and powerhouses over there. People, for a brief time, had a shot at the good life. That has had to spark a few American style patriots over there? The Taliban will be having nightmares about those guys now too.

Understand what the goal was, and who your enemies are. The goal - bluntly - was to kill enough moslems to dissuade them from attempting 911 scale attacks in the future. Mission accomplished! The goal was to prevent the Taliban movement from coalescing and growing into something far bigger and far more dangerous - mission accomplished! We all know that if the moslems had carried on with bigger and larger attacks, the only recourse would have been genocide on a scale that would make the Nazis look like pikers. Forgive me for saying so, but I don't want to live like a third world ape, and if the choice is between submitting to them or killing them all... it is what it is. I think most Americans would suddenly become pragmatic and realistic if faced with a decision like that. Fortunately - because of America- they won't have to make it any time soon.

Guys we know not to trust the mass media. We are savvy enough not to trust our leaders or theirs when it comes to this stuff. They are all lying like sidewalks. Let us have an end to this: America is not perfect; but they acted with restraint and compassion towards an enemy that didn't deserve it. Do not believe it when some Taliban monkey starts gobbling about 'victory'. Don't believe the faggots in the press when they start emoting and sobbing and wailing about defeats. America did well. When they failed, it wasn't for a lack of effort.

Bob said...

Glen - "The goal - bluntly - was to kill enough moslems to dissuade them from attempting 911 scale attacks in the future."

With respect I argue that they could not care less about that. They don't care about how many of them die nor would it disuade them from stricking at us infidels at every opportunity.

We should have Nuke Mecca and Medina soon after 9-11 instead of A-Stan and Iraq. There was no mission in either country that served America. Retired military officers that I know agree with that statement.

ambisinistral said...

What always bothered me about Afghanistan was the logistics tail. It went through some remarkably unreliable countries. Realistically, winning in Afghanistan would have required us securing that logistics tail. Considering how easily Russia could cause problems along the norther route, we would have had to secure Pakistan. Thumbs down to that idea in my book.

I think the 'shock and awe' of the response to 9-11 should have been: you topple 2 of our buildings, we'll topple two of your countries. Iraq can be garrisoned, Afghanistan not really worth the effort.

Borepatch said...

Remember the saying from 2005? America's not at war. The Army is at war. America is at the Mall.

Glen Filthie said...

The problem, BP, is that you sent the military to build a nation. That’s not what those guys are for - they blow chit up. Their job was done years ago. This kind of crap is what you can expect as long as Democrats and chitlibs have a say in military affairs. I expect this to get worse, quite frankly. The Donks are using the military to run their social experiments on, and those queers, trannies, feminists and other losers are going to get themselves and their teammates killed.

The military isn’t at war, they are now at the gay pride parade…

BigCountryExpat said...

"The goal - bluntly - was to kill enough moslems to dissuade them from attempting 911 scale attacks in the future."

Which we failed to do

We should have gone 'full retard'

They at least respect that.

I spent a year there, and let me tell you, we lost the war as soon as "Big Army" showed up, and re-established 'traditional guidelines' that the SF Operators had so specifically ignored i.e. haircuts and grooming standards. To an Afghani male? No beard = buttf*** boi to be used like a woman. Whe I was there, My beard was epic in density, length and thickness... my current one I keep now? Notsomucho.

"Big Army" showed up and 'queered the deal' so to speak, with the final outcome being a epic waste that I participated in... see https://bigcountryexpatoriginal.blogspot.com/2021/07/alive-and-afghanistan.html for the scope of my war-crime participation...

BP: Let me know if'n you want to meet in Manatee soon, I need to site in the M1A properly.

Aesop said...

We went there half-hearted and half-0assed, and got exactly what you'd expect.

We should have done Arc Light strikes, city by city, and village by village, until they brought us the heads of the Taliban leaders to placate our wrath, with the promise they'd police their own henceforth, or we'd pick up where we left off, next time with nukes.

we could have fought the entire war remotely from Diego Garcia, and been out in 90 days, forever, with near zero casualties.

The entire asinine war was the result of putting affirmative action SecState Colon (not a typo) Powell's recockulous "You break it, you bought it" nonsensical five-year-old's reasoning into place as national policy.

It didn't help that the Prez at the time had the geopolitical reasoning capability of a four year old, and was thus outclassed.

The guiding policy should have been "Yeah, we broke it, and now we're going to pummel it into dust, and if EVER you f**k with us again, even a little bit, even one more time, we're going to glass your entire country over, put you on the global extinction list, and import feral hogs and buffalo herds, and let Nature re-do the next attempt from scratch. And people on five continents will tell the tale of what happened to you to frighten their children at night when they misbehave for the next ten thousand years. And one peep of 'Allahu akbar' anywhere henceforth means the first two nukes will pop over Mecca and Medina, on a Friday night. Any questions?"

Back in the 1980s, our Beirut CIA head of station was abducted by Hezbollah. We bargained for him, and got him back. In pieces.
The Soviets' KGB Beirut head of station was also abducted. The Russians took five Hezbollah hostages, and sent them back in pieces. They got their guy back, alive, slightly ruffled, and with a profound apology from Hezbollah over the misunderstanding.

The rules in Asia Minor are simple:
"You play ball with us, or we shove the bat up your @$$." That way, there's no confusion about expectations or consequences on either side, and everyone understands when their families get put on the bargaining table as chips, for an opening ante.

Glen Filthie said...

We’ll see, I guess. Bombing them FORWARD into the Stone Age may indeed be required, but as long as liberals and Democrats have a say in it, it is what it is. My heart broke when Brigadier General Butt Blaster came out in defence of critical race theory, wokism, and faggotry among the ranks. When Alberta annexes the USA I am going to personally see that geriatric flimp fired off a catapult.

We’ll fire you out of a cannon, Aesop. The beaners will never know what hit ‘em, HAR HAR HAR!😆👍

Richard said...

We did have a goal and it was stupid. Trying to turn Afghanistan into Switzerland.