Have you ever witnessed the anger of the good shopkeeper, James Goodfellow, when his careless son has happened to break a pane of glass? ...The national lockdown is basically breaking thirty million windows, and the governments are all patting themselves on their backs for all the lives they are saving. But are they really? Sure, we see some: the curve is starting to bend, and mortality rates are (thankfully) lower than predicted. This is What Is Seen. The Silicon Graybeard has a brilliant post about What Is Unseen:
Suppose it cost six francs to repair the damage, and you say that the accident brings six francs to the glazier's trade – that it encourages that trade to the amount of six francs – I grant it; I have not a word to say against it; you reason justly. The glazier comes, performs his task, receives his six francs, rubs his hands, and, in his heart, blesses the careless child. All this is that which is seen.
But if, on the other hand, you come to the conclusion, as is too often the case, that it is a good thing to break windows, that it causes money to circulate, and that the encouragement of industry in general will be the result of it, you will oblige me to call out, "Stop there! Your theory is confined to that which is seen; it takes no account of that which is not seen."
It is not seen that as our shopkeeper has spent six francs upon one thing, he cannot spend them upon another.
The problem as I see it is we're not tracking any of the impacts of shutting down the country and just tracking how well we protected the health care system from collapse due to an increased workload. There are many reports going around about increases in calls to suicide hotlines and telephone counseling facilities as more and more people face depressing situations. There are anecdotal reports of increased calls to domestic violence agencies. The Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, reported an 891% increase in calls over last year. Doctors are reporting fewer patients in Emergency Rooms for heart problems and other typical conditions they treat and doctors think patients are staying at home when they think they're having a heart attack instead of going to the Emergency Room. This isn't good.Most importantly of all, we're not tracking (well, modeling) how many of the Kung Flu deaths are people who had severe health problems and would likely have died soon anyway. Sure, there are stories about young healthy people keeling over from this; we know that this is a vanishingly small minority of the total deaths.In New York City, the number of people dying at home has surged in recent weeks to about 200 a day, compared with about 22 to 32 deaths during the same time frame last year, according to the New York City Fire Department’s data on cardiac arrest calls.I know that when this topic comes up, the leftist wokescolds start to say, "you only care about money! You don't value life!" The answer is that the country is only looking at how many lives we're helping in one very specific place and totally ignoring the much, much larger group that's being impacted by these policies. We can't put a price on it because it's impossible to know how many lives we've saved.
...
Nearly 68% of cardiologists who responded to an informal Twitter poll posted this month by Angioplasty.org, an online community of cardiologists, said they have been seeing at least 40% fewer cases.
But we know that we are putting the population of the country under severe strain, and that this has very real consequences. Aesop left a comment from the health care front lines that illustrates this:
And yes, in one night, three of the traumas we had were domestic violence.SiG isn't the only one making this point:
Normally, we see one of those a month; at worst, one a week. Not three in one night.
But it hasn't been that way every night. Yet.
And this doesn't count important intangibles. Once a government executes a particular power, they will want to do it again. Most of the country in under house arrest; where does that lead in the future? To SiG's point that people will answer this by saying that people will die and isn't it heartless to let them die over a hypothetical, let me reply by asking how many people? Because we don't know the number because we're not measuring the factors that would tell us the answer: how many are very sick and would die within the next 6-12 months? Sure their lives are valuable but do we wreck 50 million lives to give them and extra 6 months? That sounds harsh, but that's exactly the tradeoff that we are making.Overall? I see little evidence that the various measures adopted by the western nations have had much effect. And with the exception of closing schools, I would not expect them to do so given the laxness of the lockdown and the vague nature of “essential business”. I’ve mentioned before, here in Sonoma Country California, the local cannabis retailer is considered an essential business … strange but absolutely true.Finally, I want to talk about that most mundane of things, the humble cost/benefit analysis. Draw a vertical line down a sheet of paper, label one side “Costs” and the other “Benefits”. Write them down on the appropriate side, add them up. We’ve all done some variation of that, even if just mentally.Unfortunately, it seems Dr. Fauci doesn’t do cost/benefit analyses. It seems he only looks at or cares about the benefits. He called millions of people being thrown out of work “unfortunate” … unfortunate? It is a huge cost that he doesn’t want to think about. He’s not going to lose his job. His friends won’t lose their jobs. Meanwhile, at the same time that he’s saying “unfortunate”, the mental health hotlines and the suicide hotlines are ringing off the wall. People are going off the rails. Domestic violence calls are through the roof, and understandably. Forcibly take the jobs away from a wife and a husband, tell them that they are under house arrest, that’s stress enough … and meanwhile there’s no money coming in, rent and electricity bills are piling up, can’t put gas in the car, kids bouncing off the walls from being cooped up … of course domestic violence and suicides and mental health problems are off the charts.
It's the Unseen. And the costs are Unseen, too, because no Governor in the land wants to make it explicit to the voters just what are all the many miseries that have been unleashed on them by said Governor. That it is Unseen is not by accident.
And so our policy makers see the situation poorly, looking through a glass darkly at only a portion of the situation. Of course the resulting public policy is hideous. Interestingly, the misery is concentrated on Trump voters (the hourly wage class), not the governing class (who work from home via videoconference). You can't get to your factory job that way, but the salaried class are doing fine. No doubt this is all a coincidence.
Also interesting, the only person who has been talking for over a week about getting this fixed is Donald Trump. No doubt this is also a coincidence.
But hey, we are governed by really Smart® people, are we not? Relax, citizen - all is for the best in the best of all possible worlds. The bread is free and the circus is entertaining. And even better, the chocolate ration has been increased from 3 ounces to 2.5 ounces ...
Thank goodness I am fat. I might see the end of this.
ReplyDeleteWhat comes first, empty stores or $100 loaf of bread?
ReplyDeleteThe curve is not being flattened. Anyone that thinks so does not understand math, or how pandemics work. Aesop was also yapping about how “lock downs work.” Maybe he should head over to China and tell them what they’re doing wrong?
ReplyDeleteThe numbers are bunk. The transmission and lethality factors were blown by orders of magnitude. The idiots in our medical establishment panicked, they scared the bejeebers out of our women and leaders, and we’ll be lucky if we aren’t looking at a major recession because of this. The Z Man blames women, saying that when they vote or are given positions of authority - this is the kind of thing they will do. They think with their emotions, and they will take security and safety over risk and freedom every time. There’s a lot of truth in that. But a lot of men got sand in their vagina over this too. We got suckered by hysterics and lunatics and destroyed our economy over the flu.
But there’s nothing to worry about! We’ll all just print off more money, conscript everyone into the free chit army... and the problem goes bye-bye!
Doesn't seem as though we're dropping like flies, thank God. I predict a back to work by June and a Trump landslide -- have the libs shot a one mile canon at a 2 mile target?
ReplyDeleteGlen,
ReplyDeleteYour earnestly advocated "Do Nothing- All is well!" plan has been tried.
We call that laboratory New York City.
The places that went to even half-@$$ed lockdowns are not seeing a big problem.
The places that held Spring Break beach blanket bingo-fests, and open-air Mardi Gras, not so much.
It's a fine thing to prognosticate blind, and fly on instruments, in the fog of "We don't know what works"; but doing it on a clear sunny day, and insisting on flying with your eyes closed, when everyone can compare and contrast the hot spots with the not-hot spots, in hindsight, is just silly.
Your assertions have been overtaken by events witnessed by millions in real time, and are not only invalid, they're kind of embarrassing.
Check yourself before you wreck yourself.
Word to your mother.
I predict that President Trump will recommend lifting the stay-at-home rules by mid-May. I also predict that most Democratic governors will refuse and will hold out until mid-June.
ReplyDeleteLOL. Okay, Boomer. You’re right. During the crisis, Aesop and the vibrant and diverse denizens of California have conducted themselves ever so gallantly! No one has coughed, sneezed, handled money, used doorknobs, handrails, water fountains, or pooped on a public sidewalk. The homeless crackheads, the crackwhores, and the crackers all hunkered down and sheltered in place. All the illiterate illegal Mexicans, the gang bangers, the drag queens and pedophiles practiced strict social distancing, wore masks, rubber gloves, and face shields. Everyone put their thoughts and prayers and hashtags to defeating an extinction level pandemic. So... when is everyone gonna die from the flu in NYFC, Aesop? Next week? The one after? Hypochondriacs, UNITE!!!
ReplyDelete����
You and the clowns in the mass media have pretty much been discredited, buddy. I know how this works too - I could write paragraphs involving real math and science to counter a few lines of utter bullshit that you pass off as fact. You’re like the gun grabber crowd - you’ll have an endless supply of other fake experts and nooz articles from the mainstream media that will PROVE you correct. But... In the real world, if some idiot can’t be reasoned with, it’s no big deal. Fill your boots, I guess.
I have one serious question (and I don’t expect a serious answer from the hysterics or clowns). What are we going to do when a REAL pandemic comes along? Not a fake one like Corona. I’m talking about a REAL one with high lethality and transmission rates that are so deadly and nasty they make Corona look like ... the common flu? One that can take out 30% of the population? Because they are out there... and we have seen the kind of clowns and tools that came out for this one.
Sweet dreams everyone.
You cannot out wait a respiratory disease that is already wide spread.
ReplyDeleteWhat happens two weeks after the stay-at-home orders end? The infection rates start going up again. Probably a bit more slowly, because these viruses don't like warm and humid air. But autumn will eventually arrive.
Speaking of warm and humid air, that likely makes a real difference between LA and NYfC. That and this little thing called population density (NYfC = 10,194/km2, LA = 3,198/km2) . And NYfC is dependent upon mass transit, where LA isn't. (Many of the people in NYfC don't even have a driver's license, much less own a car.)
Excellent summary, Borepatch and thanks for the kind words. The only thing I would add is to point out Dr. Birx said they're counting any death as a COVID death if the patient tests positive. It literally happened in Pennsylvania that someone fell and died of a head injury but was listed as a COVID death because he tested positive for the virus. Much like the widely criticized Italian numbers, they count a death WITH the virus, not necessarily FROM the virus.
ReplyDeleteThat sorta makes sense if someone has several other conditions and the virus is a contributor. They don't know that the virus caused the death but it might have been a contributor.
I find it interesting that the news yesterday and this morning is saying the East Coast strain of Kung Flu is different than the West Coast. The West Coast strain is closer to the Chinese strain and the East Coast is more like the European. Does that mean the European strain is more deadly?
The evidence is that the Chinese strain came from the animals with a two mutations, and the European strain is one mutation different from the Chinese strain.
Is that one of the contributors to NYC having a higher fatality rate than in CA?
This thing spreads in Singapore, Ecuador (look up what that means in Spanish), and Australia at summer's height.
ReplyDeleteIt cares that for warm air.
Pop density? Granted.
Mass transit? Well, especially if you leave the gorram subway open for business 24/7, despite thousands of deaths. Genius move by Hizzoner, Mayor De Bozo, right there. They still don't get what "quarantine" means. (New Yorker:"Close the subway and walk?!? Are you crazy? I'd rather die." Death: "OKAY, I'LL TAKE THAT DEAL IN A NEW YORK MINUTE.")
So yes, two weeks after you let infected people mingle with uninfected, you start the death tumbrels again in earnest.
So maybe don't do that, until you can sort infected from plague-free.
Duh.
And Glen, arguing Perfection as the standard is fallacious. But you knew that, and did it anyways. 20 yard penalty, loss of possession.
NYFC = 18M people, 5,820 deaths.
Entire state of CA = 40M people, 599 deaths.
One of these things is not like the other, but you can't do 1st grade math, so your counter-factual analysis keeps failing.
Everyone in NYFC dies eventually, Glen.
From this virus, it tops out at around 360,000, within a month or two, if they just listen to you, throw off their masks, and open the city up again fully, right this minute.
But, since that'd be 355,000 more dead people than they have already, they've chosen to ignore your siren call to lick the stripper pole, and pee on the third subway rail, and just get it over with.
I'm shocked! Shocked, I say! to note that even New Yorkers aren't that blisteringly stupid.
It must be frustrating to you to keep calling for people to stick their faces in a propeller, and them not listening to you.
Imagine that. But there it is.
Aesop, the problem with the 355,000 figure is that social distancing only works when you do it (you've been quite eloquent on the failures of TPTB here). As soon as you stop, the damn thing comes back (as again, you keep pointing out). Social distancing isn't a cure - the thing only dies down when pretty much everyone gets sick and then either recovers or dies.
ReplyDeleteThe question is how long we keep the economy shut down. Until its as bad as the Great Recession? Great Depression? Weimar Germany? There are consequences.
I'm already hearing public figures saying we need to keep shut down for two years. That's insanity. The decision we need to make is how many people do we let die of the virus (many - maybe most - of whom would die of their comorbidities anyway). I don't have an answer, but sure as God made little green apples the politicians don't either. That's terrifying.
Oh, that’s AWESOME. A Californian Frootopian? Looking down his nose at New Yorkers? HAR HAR HAR!!! ππ
ReplyDeleteBig numbers may impress the slow kids out in California Aesop, but I can eat them for breakfast. Care to explain them and how you arrived at them? And SHOW YOUR WORK? This is your big chance, Sunshine: do the work, explain your conclusions and invite critique ... or you can do the morally offended sanctimonious Californian jerk off dance. Go ahead, surprise me.
This is just a some jumbled, humble thoughts from another tard... but...what if all the smart and capable leaders we have are just like Aesop, and have absolutely no clue about what they’re talking about? Those that have shown their work cannot agree on methodology or statistical standards. Their results are all over the place. The mass media has been caught out faking news clips and coverage. Grandstanding politicos were screaming for Trump to provide materials, and the president had to find them for them, hidden in their own states by their own people. A dozen homeless drunks and junkies die in the gutters and back alleys in LA and lie there for three days and get chalked up as Corona victims. An old man dies in a sky diving accident in New York and he gets put down for Corona too. And... in the midst of this chit show... Aesop has all the answers!!! ππ
For the record, I lost my job, as did all my coworkers. My employers are out of business now too. My retirement investments are blowing away in the wind. Half my friends are in the same boat. My province was already in a deep recession before this panic started. On his blog, Aesop brags about cashing in on all the overtime he’s getting. The fag we have for a prime minister just doubled our carbon tax because he is a special Olympian like Aesop... except he specializes in environmental issues. I dunno about you, but my world is upside down already.
The numbers I see have the fatality rates constantly being revised downward. The last transmission rate I saw out of Germany pegged it at 0.4%, and survivability at 99.5%. That’s right in there with the regular flu. I’ll throw it out there again - what happens when we face REAL pandemic?
@ Glenn the CFRs are all over the charts. There's way too many variables between demographic groups and government response strategies. Some areas get really blessed with a low fatality rate. Some areas get hammered.
ReplyDeleteI live with a high risk individual right next door to another high riskrisk individual. My wife and I closed the gate and did the bug in thing on March 2nd. This popped up on my radar in January. I started reading and researching and decided that the potential downside wasn't worth the risk of chasing mere money. We can afford this strategy because we live within our means. We're almost debt free. We live in a large RV on a small piece of land. We don't have a crystal ball, nor do have any inside connections to the government. We looked ahead and acted quickly and decisively. We've survived for years on piss little money. I'm middle aged and never recovered from O'Bozo. Our small economic footprint was the result of getting burned really badly in 08. After 12 years I've discovered that less really is more. We've survived for 6 weeks on $900... Without starving or changing our standard of living. Planted a garden and got some baby chickens. If you want to survive this you're gonna have to plan ahead. Yes this really sucks! But it's not the end of the world. Might be the end of the status quo and I won't shed a tear if the monstrosity of government collapses but either way ya gotta deal with the facts.
1. This ain't just the flu. It's potentially worse (ref Italy's CFR)
2. The government might have to be reprimanded with ropes and lampposts to regain our liberty. It won't be the last time if we do.
3. Productive activities are beneficial. Bellyaching isn't.
4. The sun's gonna rise tomorrow if Jesus doesn't come back tonight.
5. Natural Selection is real and stupid people cull themselves all the time. Some culling is physical, some is economic. We're overdue for it. Don't struggle, just ride it out. Cherish your blessings. Relationships are way more important than money. Lean on them in hard times.
It'll be alright. Ain't none of us getting out of live alive...
I'm a prepper too, Fred. I have no debts, a small amount of savings, a lot of investments. We are not rich, but, for now - we're free. We worked damned hard to get here too... and I'd hate to see us reduced to poverty and scratching out a wretched existence because we let some morons panic us into nuking our own economy - and I will oppose it if I can. If you understood stats and had a layman's grasp on virology and immunology... you'd realize that you were only in marginally more danger than you are any other flu season. TPTB tell ghost stories... and we panic like children and start scaring ourselves with even more outlandish ghost stories. We bolt the doors, hide under the bed because the gubbermint told us too. There was a time we were made of better stuff.
ReplyDeleteSocial distancing is a delaying tactic. If we delay long enough, we can all starve to death before we get the CCP virus. There is an optimum time to delay, and that optimum duration was probably over last week.
ReplyDeleteQuarantine is where ONLY the sick people are identified and isolated. Since our CDC and FDA chose to forbid, then to delay testing, quarantine simply isn't an option. Now, thanks to the medical oligopoly's pet regulators, our only option is everybody gets it, and eventually the survivors get on with their lives.
If the CDC and FDA were China's allies in biological warfare, what would they have done differently?