If you are asked to leave the plane, then you have to leave the plane: you don't run it.
If you won't comply then force is perfectly valid. All the women 'don't want violence', but that is what the man is demanding by flouting the instructions.
AFter all, if no one can use force, why ever obey if I don't like it???
He has a right to be angry for having his seat taken. Big time. But then run the plane decisions. NO
If we don't like the way we are being treated by the airlines and the TSA, we can fix it in a week. Airlines are a marginal business, costs always threaten to exceed earnings. If those planes don't fly close to full, they aren't making money. That's why airlines overbook.
Don't fly. Everyone just don't fly unless it's a critical need. For a week. Bring the airlines to heel and let them relearn the idea that we are the customers and their business depends on our willingness to spend relatively large sums with them.
If planes flew 30% empty, all of a sudden it would be a major rethinking of beating people in the face and dragging them off airplanes to make room for deadheading flight crews. If planes flew 40% empty, we could get control of the way we are treated like felons at the TSA checkpoints. If planes flew 50% empty we would be treated to Congressional hearings. And it would only take a week.
Reason # 763987. Why buying the cheapest seat you can possibly get is bad way to book your flight. The " computer ". Picks the from the list of least profitable customers first.
NEVER fly steerage class And don't book a cruise ship vacation that way either!!!
Ted is the most correct... Guaranteed he was on the cheapest fare he could get. And the force was NOT by United, but by Chiraq Airport Police. But good point about not flying for a week. Of course with Delta's problems right now, it'll probably TAKE you a week to get your flight anyway...
Blame the CEO of united all you want. The airline's policies may be bad, but it was the COP that did the deed.
Once I am IN MY SEAT, having been given a BOARDING PASS, I own the seat for the duration of the flight. Failure of the airline to deal with their errors is not my issue. The contract has been let and consumated. (and they can't use the excuse of "Lawful orders of a flight crew", the plane had not left the terminal and the door was not closed, therefore that doesn't apply)
Where is the death threats for the cop? Wasn't the airline that did the beating.....How about the other cops who stood by and watched him beat that man? Why did the other airline passengers allow him to get off the pane unharmed? The other passengers should have arrested him for battery and held him (using whatever force necessary) until other law enforcement came to take him to detention.
Everyone is pointing to the airline, but it was the cops who beat the dude.
Libertyman, it makes absolutely no difference (in PR terms) if the guy has a background of sorts. Nobody I've heard from says that he was anything other than sitting quietly until they got up in his face.
And the point of my post is that the CEO has cooked his goose here. It quite frankly doesn't matter what the guy's background is because NOBODY will read a 1000 word article on his "troubled" background (whatever THAT means). They'll watch the video. United is starting from fail.
B, the CEO cooked his goose because his job was PR damage control, and he quite frankly could not have done a worse job. Sure, the cop was the one who smashed the guy up, but United is getting the blame. And really, they deserve it because they escalated things to the point where they called the cops.
United owns this, and will continue to own it. And they SHOULD own this.
Another excellent example of why you should never call for a cop, no matter who you are. This will turn into a very expensive lesson for the airline and CEO, and the personnel involved. You can be sure that the word will go out to ALL airline employees in the US that calling for any reason other than gunfire, within their view, will be a terminating offense.
Automatic violence response by police is a legacy of our 40+yr War-On-Some-Drugs(tm).
@ASM826 +1 On not flying. For 15 years, Americans have been putting up with the TSA crap when they could end it painlessly, the way you suggest. They would even save money.
Here's a thought, if it's an airline, chances are they own more than one plane. Maybe the employees (barring a life or death emergency) could've been booked on another flight. Unless this was the only plane United owns with combat seating and MMA try outs.
At the rate things are going, I'm thinking he might not make it to the weekend.
ReplyDeleteIf you are asked to leave the plane, then you have to leave the plane: you don't run it.
ReplyDeleteIf you won't comply then force is perfectly valid. All the women 'don't want violence', but that is what the man is demanding by flouting the instructions.
AFter all, if no one can use force, why ever obey if I don't like it???
He has a right to be angry for having his seat taken. Big time. But then run the plane decisions. NO
After losing well over half a billion dollars overnight, I am thinking the CEO will be beaten and dragged out of his office by the investors
ReplyDeleteIf we don't like the way we are being treated by the airlines and the TSA, we can fix it in a week. Airlines are a marginal business, costs always threaten to exceed earnings. If those planes don't fly close to full, they aren't making money. That's why airlines overbook.
ReplyDeleteDon't fly. Everyone just don't fly unless it's a critical need. For a week. Bring the airlines to heel and let them relearn the idea that we are the customers and their business depends on our willingness to spend relatively large sums with them.
If planes flew 30% empty, all of a sudden it would be a major rethinking of beating people in the face and dragging them off airplanes to make room for deadheading flight crews. If planes flew 40% empty, we could get control of the way we are treated like felons at the TSA checkpoints. If planes flew 50% empty we would be treated to Congressional hearings. And it would only take a week.
Cecil,
ReplyDeleteAnd if you aren't willing to refuse when you're being singled out and beaten, where is the line? The limits to force cut both ways.
Reason # 763987. Why buying the cheapest seat you can possibly get is bad way to book your flight. The " computer ". Picks the from the list of least profitable customers first.
ReplyDeleteNEVER fly steerage class And don't book a cruise ship vacation that way either!!!
Did you hear the other story about the guy who bought a First Class ticket on United...
Delete...and was almost kicked off anyway because United wanted the seat for a "more important " passenger?
(They ultimately gave him a middle seat in economy class between a squabbling couple.)
Ted is the most correct... Guaranteed he was on the cheapest fare he could get. And the force was NOT by United, but by Chiraq Airport Police. But good point about not flying for a week. Of course with Delta's problems right now, it'll probably TAKE you a week to get your flight anyway...
ReplyDeleteTurns out the guy was no saint, but should they have used strong arm tactics?
ReplyDeleteMaybe he did have to be back for his medical work. Not clear how he still had his medical license, though.
Blame the CEO of united all you want. The airline's policies may be bad, but it was the COP that did the deed.
ReplyDeleteOnce I am IN MY SEAT, having been given a BOARDING PASS, I own the seat for the duration of the flight. Failure of the airline to deal with their errors is not my issue. The contract has been let and consumated. (and they can't use the excuse of "Lawful orders of a flight crew", the plane had not left the terminal and the door was not closed, therefore that doesn't apply)
Where is the death threats for the cop? Wasn't the airline that did the beating.....How about the other cops who stood by and watched him beat that man? Why did the other airline passengers allow him to get off the pane unharmed? The other passengers should have arrested him for battery and held him (using whatever force necessary) until other law enforcement came to take him to detention.
Everyone is pointing to the airline, but it was the cops who beat the dude.
Libertyman, it makes absolutely no difference (in PR terms) if the guy has a background of sorts. Nobody I've heard from says that he was anything other than sitting quietly until they got up in his face.
ReplyDeleteAnd the point of my post is that the CEO has cooked his goose here. It quite frankly doesn't matter what the guy's background is because NOBODY will read a 1000 word article on his "troubled" background (whatever THAT means). They'll watch the video. United is starting from fail.
B, the CEO cooked his goose because his job was PR damage control, and he quite frankly could not have done a worse job. Sure, the cop was the one who smashed the guy up, but United is getting the blame. And really, they deserve it because they escalated things to the point where they called the cops.
United owns this, and will continue to own it. And they SHOULD own this.
Another excellent example of why you should never call for a cop, no matter who you are. This will turn into a very expensive lesson for the airline and CEO, and the personnel involved. You can be sure that the word will go out to ALL airline employees in the US that calling for any reason other than gunfire, within their view, will be a terminating offense.
ReplyDeleteAutomatic violence response by police is a legacy of our 40+yr War-On-Some-Drugs(tm).
@ASM826
ReplyDelete+1 On not flying. For 15 years, Americans have been putting up with the TSA crap when they could end it painlessly, the way you suggest. They would even save money.
Here's a thought, if it's an airline, chances are they own more than one plane. Maybe the employees (barring a life or death emergency) could've been booked on another flight. Unless this was the only plane United owns with combat seating and MMA try outs.
ReplyDeleteUnknown, I hadn't heard that. Unbelievable.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.latimes.com/business/lazarus/la-fi-lazarus-united-low-priority-passenger-20170412-story.html
Heads need to roll.