Thursday, September 11, 2014

Thirteen Years

Thirteen years after the attack on Pearl Harbor it was December 1954. The risk of an attack by assets of Germany or Japan in December 1954 could reasonably be called low.

We are thirteen years past the attacks on the United States that occurred on September 11th, 2001. Would anyone be surprised if the United States was attacked again today? Tomorrow?

George Bush's biggest mistake was not going to Congress on September 12, 2001 and asking for a declaration of war.


Old NFO said...

Actually the mistake was NOT finishing the job in 1991 when we were there...

Goober said...

Old NFO:

We were in Afghanistan in 1991?

Goober said...

As funny as it may sound, destroying a powerful nation state in a conventional war is far more straight forward than tracking down and killing religion-based fundamentalists who operate without flag or permanent base of operation.

If you want to blow up Tojo, you bomb the palace where he lives, which is in the capitol city of the country over which he is sovereign.

If you want to blow up an OBL type, you first have to figure out where he is, and your field of operation includes the entire planet, with maybe the exception of Antarctica and the USA, itself.

When you crush Japan, you've won. When you crush Al Qaeda, ISIS springs from it's ashes, because these guys aren't there to win a battle for the glory of a Japan, which has obviously been defeated, but rather for the glory of their god, who is immortal and transcendent and will be there, judging them all to the last breath of every one of them.

I don't believe that America post 9/11 had any less resolve than America post Pearl Harbor. We just didn't have a decent target on which to settle out cross hairs, and we've been struggling with that since.

Divemedic said...

@ Goober: EXACTLY. How can you declare war on an idea?

This is a group of people who believe so strongly that their god wants them to kill infidels that they are willing to strap bombs to their 8-10 year old children and send them to blow themselves up, with the hope that they kill a few of the enemy.

How can you fight that kind of fanaticism?

burt said...


Well said. If I may, I'd add that, without that "decent target", the American people still do not have the full understanding that they need to support the "long march" needed to defeat an ideology.

Bush understood (or at least was led to that understanding by his advisers) that the ideology would take a long time - possibly generations - to defeat. He said so, on several occasions. He tried to describe the ideology as that "decent target", and did his level best to defend us from it.

The current White House resident has gone a long way to eliminate the fact that such an ideology exists, and has even used Orwellian tactics to rewrite history and scrub certain identifying phrases (e.g. "Islamic terrorists") from his administration. For him, there is no "decent target". There are only certain people who are causing trouble for means OTHER than anything "Islamic". He clearly said so last night.

Merely saying something is so does not make it so. And saying that something does not exist cannot erase it from existence.

Some Americans realize that the "long march" is the only way to protect ourselves, our loved ones, and this country. But there are other Americans who are guided by their ostrich-like view (or lack of view) of the world, and who believe that merely not seeing a problem means the problem doesn't exist. Unfortunately, the ostriches are currently in charge.

From the Hitchhiker's Guide:

"Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal:

The Ravenous Bugblatter Beast is so mind-bogglingly stupid that it thinks that if you can't see it, it can't see you. Therefore, the best defense against a Bugblatter Beast is to wrap a towel around your head."

Erin Palette said...

The only way I can think of to defeat that kind of fanaticism (that isn't genocide) is to defeat them on a cultural level:

Flood their nations with rock music, beer, BBQ and pornography.

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Paul Bonneau said...

Declare war on who, exactly? Saudi Arabia?

Comrade Misfit said...

What Paul said. On whom were we going to declare war? How would we know when we've won/lost/tied? Who would sign the peace treaty for the other side?

Chris said...

What Erin suggests did work on the USSR. Once the common tovarisch found out that the West was far better than Tass and Pravda let on, it was game over.

But the Islamic countries have a much stronger religious hold than the Soviets had. The equivalent of Millenials in those countries mostly would love to partake of things taken for granted here. But the economies of the Arab portion of the Islamic world are even suckier than what the USSR had, and the control is tighter.

Still, as a strategy, it has a far greater chance of success than bombing. If my child were to be killed by a drone strike or bombs from a manned aircraft, I would spend the rest of my life seeking revenge.

ASM826 said...

I would have declared war on all the terror groups that had already declared war on us and on any country that harbored them.

Victory would be when they had given all up all arms and sworn an oath to whoever they believe in that would never take up arms against the U.S., or were dead.

The senior (remaining) leaders of each group could sign, if anyone was still able to do so.

This would have been war like Sherman, Patton, and LeMay would have waged it.

We might still be waging it, but it would be a declared war. Pr. Bush would have gotten that declaration from Congress on Sept. 12th or 13th of 2001 and then Congress could not have stood back and blamed him for any and everything that happened.

As it was, we sent troops and men died, and we didn't have any answers to your questions anyway.

R.K. Brumbelow said...

@erin's comment got me thinking about a comment I used to make but have not in a while ...

Lets kill 2 birds with one stone.

Export all our illegal immigrants to iraq and have them build a giant wall around it. Come back after a few decades (centuries) and I bet they have developed civilization. It worked for the Brits in Australia, their wall was called the Pacific Ocean, but they developed beer, bbq and from what I hear quite the home grown pr0n market. (34m+ search results on google)