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Wednesday, July 20, 2011
1944 U.S. Army Combat Firing With Handguns film
Love the .45 ACP tracers. Interesting to see double-tap with the 1911 back in the 40's, and the pointing "advantages" of the revolver over the 1911. Not a fan of the tea-cup grip, though. I guess things have advanced some in the last 70 years.
I'd guess that the only thing the tea-cup grip would be good for in when in the prone position.
I expect that tracers were used for the film, not for training. They could stop firing and go look for holes in the target for regular grunts.
The problem with the tea cup grip is that recoil is backwards and upwards (for most guns). Having your weak hand on the bottom of the grip does nothing to resist these forces.
Having your weak hand wrapping around your strong hand, and isotonically pushing forward, resists at least the backwards force.
Good summary of the deficiencies WRT the "tea cup" grip. There's no reason to use it in prone either. Your grip is your grip regardless of what the rest of your body is doing.
Love the tracers! Notice they also teach a "point firing" position, with the mistaken belief that there's some *instinctive* pointing attribute that can be acquired and used by a recruit or novice - when it's the sights that need to be employed. I think that BackInTheDay the teacup was considered as a way to add a support-hand rather than a total "grip-effect," - like the support hand placed under a rifle's forearm. It does help a little with lateral motion and the figure-8 wobble, but not with recoil or controlability and repeatability - and it's also interesting to see how much *good posture* is emphasized.
The second video shows the classic "snap shooting position," using your body position as your sights.
Elbow in hard against the point of the hip, wrist locked, the hand extending the line of the forearm. The trigger finger would be pointed at the target if it were not otherwise occupied.
At most urban combat distances it works about as well as a "stance," and is a lot faster. Especially drawing from a speed holster.
What don't you like about the teacup grip? (I haven't shot a pistol much, so I'm looking to learn.)
ReplyDeleteI wonder if the tracers were really used in training, or just for the video, er, movie.
I expect that tracers were used for the film, not for training. They could stop firing and go look for holes in the target for regular grunts.
ReplyDeleteThe problem with the tea cup grip is that recoil is backwards and upwards (for most guns). Having your weak hand on the bottom of the grip does nothing to resist these forces.
Having your weak hand wrapping around your strong hand, and isotonically pushing forward, resists at least the backwards force.
Good summary of the deficiencies WRT the "tea cup" grip. There's no reason to use it in prone either. Your grip is your grip regardless of what the rest of your body is doing.
ReplyDeleteLove the tracers! Notice they also teach a "point firing" position, with the mistaken belief that there's some *instinctive* pointing attribute that can be acquired and used by a recruit or novice - when it's the sights that need to be employed.
ReplyDeleteI think that BackInTheDay the teacup was considered as a way to add a support-hand rather than a total "grip-effect," - like the support hand placed under a rifle's forearm.
It does help a little with lateral motion and the figure-8 wobble, but not with recoil or controlability and repeatability - and it's also interesting to see how much *good posture* is emphasized.
Worst pistol shots in the world? Senior officers and Noncoms. Can't, cannot, be taught.
ReplyDeleteThe second video shows the classic "snap shooting position," using your body position as your sights.
ReplyDeleteElbow in hard against the point of the hip, wrist locked, the hand extending the line of the forearm. The trigger finger would be pointed at the target if it were not otherwise occupied.
At most urban combat distances it works about as well as a "stance," and is a lot faster. Especially drawing from a speed holster.
Stranger
"Worst pistol shots in the world? Senior officers and Noncoms. Can't, cannot, be taught." I must be a 6 star general by now...
ReplyDeleteBut I LOVE these WWII era training films.
Anyone else mentally screaming "Finger off the Trigger!" when they're practicing the grips?
ReplyDelete